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  • Hello, I just noticed an error on Hisoka's page where it name's Texture Surprise as a conjuration ability. First here's the description "Hisoka can apply his aura to any thin surface (such as paper or cloth) and manifests his thoughts onto it to change its appearance."

    This means Texture Surprise is transmutation, he changes the "texture" of the item from one thing (ex. cloth) into another (ex. flesh, ink, paper etc.) It's not conjuration because he doesn't summon abything, he uses a regular piece of cloth like he did for his spider tattoo, and hankerchief to cover his arm, or changes his nen itself into another texture like he did to rebuild his face or change the contents of his letter.

    Also he copies this technique from his master John Doe who was also a transmuter and uses a scarf to change his face

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    • "Manifests his thoughts"

      "Manifests his thoughts"

      "MANIFESTS  his thoughts"

      The main difference between Conjuration and Transmutation is that non-Nen Users are unable to see transmuted Nen. If Texture Surprise were transmutation, it would be impossible for the audience of Heaven's Arena to be tricked in the same way that Kastro was. Hence Conjuration, as he is conjuring a 2D image onto a physical surface.

      Another thing of note is that Morel shows a similar ability when using Deep Purple, changing the appearance of his smoke puppets, so if it were truly transmutation, it would be incredibly difficult for Morel to do so with only a 40% proficiency in the category.

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    • Zeriel00
      Zeriel00 removed this reply because:
      It doesn't contribute to the discussion
      01:49, August 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Check my talk page and the talk pages of those that posted there. This debate has already happened in the past and Texture Surprise was already listed as Transmutation before it was changed.

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    • I'll try to sumarize my post that was lost.

      "Manifest thoughts" you're completely ignoring the first part of the description "Hisoka can apply his aura to any thin surface" if it was not summoned but changed then it's not conjuration, it's transmutation.

      Also you're assuming the word manifest automatically means it's conjuration? Doesn't Killua's Aura manifest as lighting? See what I did there?

      Hisoka is a transmuter, the original creator of Texture surprise (John Doe) was also a transmuter.

      It's also a common misconception that ALL transmutation is invisible. What if you transmute the color of an object or texture? would the object become invisible? Did the water in water divination become invisible? No it just changes properties.

      We don't know enough about Morel's ability to say 40% of proficiency will have X effect on the smoke puppets. Morel is mainly a manipulator so he's a bad example anyway.

      Why don't we talk about Biscuit instead? She's a transmuter, she changed her body to appear young, she doesn't walk around being invisible. Even tough transmuted Nen is invisible it doesn't mean every transmutation is.

      Texture surprise is a special ability that changes the TEXTURE of a thing. Do you think it would make sense for TEXTURE to be invisible? If so then Hisoka would look like a freak to everybody after his fight with Chrollo, but he looks normal because the WHOLE POINT of texture surprise is to fool people.

      John Doe also changed his face with a hankerchief and his victims and the general population could see him. If it was conjuration he wouldn't need a real object like a hankerchief he could just summon it.

      So that's why Texture surprise is Transmutation, you don't see Shizuku using a real vacuum cleaner to make Deme-chan, just like texture surprise wouldn't need a real hankerchief or another object to work if it was conjuration.

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    • Pigzillion wrote: The main difference between Conjuration and Transmutation is that non-Nen Users are unable to see transmuted Nen.

      Also this is not the main difference between Conjuration and Transmutation. The main difference is that Conjuration summons an object or thing, like summoning rubber, water or lighting. Transmutation copies the qualities and properties of a thing, like bungie gum copies the qualities of rubber and gum and Killua's aura copies the qualities of electricity.

      You could conjure water or transmute your aura into having the qualities of water. The transmutation would be invisible because it's aura but if you transmuted oil into water the water wouldn't be invisible. The conjured water would just be like regular water maybe with an added Hatsu ability.

      This is why people have problems distinguishing between the two categories. Not because one is visible and the other invisible. You could even make Conjuration invisible with In.

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    • Good points. Still disagree though.

      Conjured entities still require aura to be brought into existence. Just because Hisoka is surrounding an object with his aura doesn't mean it remains as Aura; he may simply be surrounding it in aura before transforming his aura into a physical object. Moreover, he is using conjuration to change the appearance of a non-conjured entity, meaning the only way he could do so in the first place would be to surround said object in his aura first and then materialise it onto the medium.

      I agree; I was initially confused as to the meaning of the word.

      That point is irrelevant; both Hisoka and his former master would still have an 80% proficiency over conjuration, so it is not at all far-fetched that the hatsu involves conjuration.

      What are you on about? No Transmuter has ever changed the colour of water divination, with the only two cases seen changing its taste, not its colour or texture, which makes sense since aura is invisible. There is also no discernable reason as to why emitted Nen would change the colour of water in Water Divination, and since it is found in Emission Water Divination is the only example where changes to colour are found, there is no reason to suggest that the phenomenon involved Transmutation or Conjuration.

      Morel is not a bad example in the slightest, he's a perfect example. A Manipulator with only a 40% proficiency in Transmutation was able to mimic Hisoka's Hatsu to an even greater degree than the latter, changing the appearance of dozens of smoke puppets at once. While there is still no conclusive evidence that this was done with Transmuted Aura rather than Conjured entities, since only Nen users saw Morels Smoke Puppets, it would still make more sense for a Manipulator to employ a Conjuration technique, which he has a 60% proficiency in, rather than Transmutation, the polar opposite of his Nen Type.

      What? If Bisky has changed her appearance using transmuted Nen, that doesn't mean that her body would become invisible, it means that her Aura is invisible, as is the case for every Nen user. And if you're suggesting that she does this using her Hatsu (which is fairly plausible), that doesn't mean that she is using her aura to deceive others into looking younger than she actually is. It is entirely plausible to assume that her Aura is having actual physical effects on her body, resulting in her skin/body being healthier and her actually looking younger, not applying a technique similar to Hisoka in order to trick people. The two techniques are entirely different.

      No, but texture doesn't mean colour, and in the case of Hisoka changing his fortune, for instance, he didn't change the texture in the slightest but changes the writing instead; such a thing should have no effect whatsoever on the texture of the page. Plus, if Hisoka simply changed the texture of his Bungee Gum after his battle with Chrollo, he would still look like a faceless one-legged freak to anyone he walked past in the street, since changing the texture of Aura, in particular, would still make it invisible to non-Nen users.

      I have no counter to that; it's a good point, but still not decisive.

      Completely and utterly irrelevant. Shizuku isn't just trying to change the appearance of something so that it appears like Demi-Chan, she is creating a Vacuum that can suck up things infinitely. Hisoka simply wants to change the appearance of a real object in order to deceive people, which doesn't require a new object to be formed. He didn't want to conjure a new fortune and get rid of the old one, he wanted to change the appearance of the original. This also means that he wouldn't need to spend long periods of time obsessing over a physical object, as the technique only focuses on appearance.

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    • It's conjuration why.......plot no logic in plot

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    • ...Could you elaborate further?

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    • the ability is transmutation because he is taking his aura and changing it into the bungee gum substance. it isnt conjuration in the slightest

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    • The argument is about Texture Surprise, not Bungee Gum.

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    • To say that conjuring up aura and using it on someone/something makes someone a conjurer is like saying literally every nen practitioner ever is a conjurer because the most basic application, Ren, is to "conjure up one's aura."  That isn't actually conjuration; in this context it just means they're using their energy.  It's like saying you conjured up the willpower to go to the DMV.  Not every time the word 'conjure' or 'manifest' is used does it literally translate to popping an object out of thin air.  English has multiple uses for the same words so stop tripping up over the wording.

      Conjuration is when you summon an actual object out of nowhere, creating something entirely new that did not exist before, hence the name "Conjuration."  Transmutation is when you transform an already existing thing into something different by altering its physical elements, hence the name "Transmutation."

      Hisoka's Texture Surprise does not, for example, create a second piece of paper with different words on it than the first.  Nor does it create a new layer to attach onto the first.  It changes the piece of paper to have new words on it.  Yes it's technically true that he is "manifesting" his aura to do that, but EVERY nen practitioner "manifests" their aura to do ANYTHING.  Uvogin manifests his aura into his fist to throw a punch, and I dare anyone to say he's "conjuring" an impact.  Again, this is just people failing to english good.  Always remember to english good.

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    • Conjuration in this context means to conjure one's Aura into a physical object, which I thought would have been obvious since it is what is meant by the term for the entirety of the series. I am not tripping over the wording, and the fact that you are applying a completely different meaning to a word which has had a clear definition in the world of Hunter x Hunter since its initial introduction is frankly moronic.

      Transmutation means changing the properties of one's Aura, not a physical object; this, also, is made clear in the series, as it is stated that Transmuters change the properties of their Aura to mimic a certain substance while Conjurers are able to transform their Aura into the actual substance itself.

      Hisoka's Texture Surprise does not create a second piece of paper, but he creates a 2d image on top of the paper in order to change what it says. Transmutation does not, in the slightest, involve the alteration of actual physical objects, hence it could not be incorporated into Hisoka's Hatsu to the degree which you are suggesting, especially due to the fact that non-Nen users were capable of seeing Hisoka's Hatsu.

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    • Pigzillion wrote:
       

      Transmutation means changing the properties of one's Aura, not a physical object; this, also, is made clear in the series, as it is stated that Transmuters change the properties of their Aura to mimic a certain substance while Conjurers are able to transform their Aura into the actual substance itself.

      Seriously, if this is true please explain to me the following sentence: " If a student changes the taste of the water in the glass during their water divination, they are a Transmuter "

      This means that something physical CAN change quality with transmutation (Taste) and NOT be invisible, so why don't you stop being so hard headed and stop ignoring the facts?

      Here's more facts for you:

      Hisoka always uses a non conjured object like a hankerchief for Texture surprise so why you call it conjuring? He didn't summon anything, he changed the quality of his Nen projected on the hankerchief using the hankerchief to cover his wound.

      When he fixed himself from fighting Chrollo he didn't summon anything he literally applied Aura to his face, Hand and foot and TRANSMUTED IT into looking like his real skin  i.e. color and texture. Or are you saying he summoned skin, hand and foot? don't you need months of training to conjure ONE thing?

      Biscuit Krueger's ability is called Body transmutation, she turns into a little girl and people can see her so why would you say Transmutation is always invisible? How do you explain this? did she conjure a little girl? No, she transmuted her entire body to be the size of a little girl. It's not an illusion and it's not a conjuration so it's transmutation.

      There's an error in thinking transmutation is always 100% of the time invisible because of the explanation in the anime. In the anime they where talking about Aura like Killua's electricity or Hisoka's Bungie gum so ofcourse those are 100% of the time invisible BUT If you transmute something that already exists and change it's color or texture then it will be visible because it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

      I'm starting to get annoyed when you ignore every fact I've presented and say is conjuration without offering anything to back it up except the common misconception that Conjuration is visible and Transmutation is not, 100% of the time. Both water divination and Biscuit completely prove you wrong for transmutation not being able to be visible and using In proves you wrong again for Conjuration not being able to be invisible.

      I think I've proven my case more than enough and unless Togashi himself says it's conjuration, I think everything evidenced here proves that it's actually Transmutation. Why even present a hankerchief or paper in the first place if it was conjuration? wouldn't that be kinda redundant?

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    • There is a lot more evidence pointing to Conjuration than Transmutation: for starters, the kanji used in the databook, the fact that it is visible to everyone, unlike transmuted aura, that it can be applied and removed without Nen user noticing the difference even when they touch it, that Hisoka can forget it's on, and the fact that Transmutation cannot change matter, but only alter the properties of aura.

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    • Martialmaniac wrote:
      There is a lot more evidence pointing to Conjuration than Transmutation: for starters, the kanji used in the databook, the fact that it is visible to everyone, unlike transmuted aura, that it can be applied and removed without Nen user noticing the difference even when they touch it, that Hisoka can forget it's on, and the fact that Transmutation cannot change matter, but only alter the properties of aura.

      Read what I wrote again, transmutation cannot change matter? then what is Biscuit? The kanji is for Light (Usui) and Lie (Uso) and has nothing to do with anything

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    • What does Biscuit have to do with anything? She herself does not know how her body changed, there is no ground to assume it is Transmutation. Also, the fact that no aura is detectable through eyesight, sensorial abilities or physical contact, and that Hisoka can dispel the technique at will (meaning the change is not permanent), are prerogatives of Conjuration out of the 5 accessible Nen types.

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    • If she really does use Transmutation (can be Conjuration), it involves the creation of an aura construct or tangible shape and this can then "compress" her body. The matter was not altered by the aura but by the pressure of the construct. Emission, for example, does not change matter by definition, but can blow things up into small pieces of the same matter that the thing hitted was composed initially.

      The two basic types of abilities of a Transmuter don't match with Texture Surprise, not without the explanation being unnecessarily more complicated and stretched than with the use of Conjuration. Also, if Hisoka changes the matter with his aura, how could he managed to use Texture Surprise on his false limbs which are incontestably made of aura?

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    • 1.) Bisky uses Transmutation because her main ability is transmutation (The Aura turned into lotion) if it was conjuration she would have to summon a body and somehow "possess" the body she conjured otherwise it would be a dead body on the floor. She said the change happened over time witch means her own body changed, nothing was summoned. She not knowing how it happened is irrelevant. If you can see Biscuit you can see the effects of transmutation. Just because it changes the quality of Aura doesn't mean it can't change anything else like I already mentioned above.

      2.)  "The two basic types of abilities of a Transmuter don't match with Texture Surprise, not without the explanation being unnecessarily more complicated and stretched than with the use of Conjuration"

      What do you mean? it matches perfectly and being complicated or not is irrelevant. Like I said before, Hisoka is a transmuter and the original creator of texture surprise is also a transmuter I don't think this is coinsidence. Hisoka needs a Hankerchief or a Nen covering BEFORE using texture surprise so he is transmuting one substance into another. If Hisoka didn't need to do this and the ability came from nowhere then you could argue it was conjuration.

      3.) A lot of people are making the mistake that transmutation is invisible 100% of the time when that's not the case. Transmutation changes the quality of Aura, true, Aura is invisible, this also true but it was never mentioned that you can't transmute something that is visible because if you use Aura to change the properties of an object like color and texture then you can see it.

      How Texture Surprise works:

      Hisoka didn't summon a human foot, he summoned his aura, shaped it into a foot and with texture surprise change the color and texture to look like a foot. 

      Do you understand that Hisoka didn't learn to summon human limbs and Biscuit is not a walking puppet/corpse nor is she invisible? They changed the composition of something with transmutation. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

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    • Zeriel00 wrote:
      1.) Bisky uses Transmutation because her main ability is transmutation (The Aura turned into lotion) if it was conjuration she would have to summon a body and somehow "possess" the body she conjured otherwise it would be a dead body on the floor. She said the change happened over time witch means her own body changed, nothing was summoned. She not knowing how it happened is irrelevant. If you can see Biscuit you can see the effects of transmutation. Just because it changes the quality of Aura doesn't mean it can't change anything else like I already mentioned above.

      2.)  "The two basic types of abilities of a Transmuter don't match with Texture Surprise, not without the explanation being unnecessarily more complicated and stretched than with the use of Conjuration"

      What do you mean? it matches perfectly and being complicated or not is irrelevant. Like I said before, Hisoka is a transmuter and the original creator of texture surprise is also a transmuter I don't think this is coinsidence. Hisoka needs a Hankerchief or a Nen covering BEFORE using texture surprise so he is transmuting one substance into another. If Hisoka didn't need to do this and the ability came from nowhere then you could argue it was conjuration.

      3.) A lot of people are making the mistake that transmutation is invisible 100% of the time when that's not the case. Transmutation changes the quality of Aura, true, Aura is invisible, this also true but it was never mentioned that you can't transmute something that is visible because if you use Aura to change the properties of an object like color and texture then you can see it.

      How Texture Surprise works:

      Hisoka didn't summon a human foot, he summoned his aura, shaped it into a foot and with texture surprise change the color and texture to look like a foot. 

      Do you understand that Hisoka didn't learn to summon human limbs and Biscuit is not a walking puppet/corpse nor is she invisible? They changed the composition of something with transmutation. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.


      Firstly

      You are stating as if Bungee Gum and Texture Surprise are one ability. They are not. When Hisoka made a foot, he used Bungee Gum to shape it and Texture Surprise ADDED onto it NOT TRANSMUTED to change its appearance, making it still possible that Texture Surprise is Conjuration. Also, Hisoka applied this onto a non flat, semi-solid, and thick as limbs Aura even though it is stated that Hisoka can only apply it on flat, solid, and thin objects like paper or cloth. It may be possible that Hisoka is simply not as skilled a Conjurerer to do that prior to his death and gained enough skill to do so after his rebirth that has made him stronger. It may just be possible that he can now apply Texture Surprise on both Aura and physical objects.It is still very much possible that its a Conjuration ability.

      The reason as to why Hisoka does not simply conjure up a Hankerchief as a surface for Texture Surprise is as seen in the scene where he decieves the Phantom Troupe about his future. He couldn't just summon a Hankerchief and turn it into a letter right in front of the Phantom Troupe. He had to do it onto the letter. Basically, there are situations where he would have to do something on a particular surface.

      Also, do not use John Doe in the argument. He is a non canon character and we are arguing of a canon ability.

      Second,

      All appearances of Body Changing with Nen are NOT Transmutation at all. Quite the opposite, actually. Both cases are Manipulation by Illumi and Shaiapouf. You cannot argue that because Bisky is a Transmuter, it must be transmutation since its her most compatible Nen type and Manipulation is her least. We have never seen anything that connotes that Transmutation affects the body of the user, only Manipulation or maybe Specialization. Any other argument about her is now irrelevant due to lack of evidence or information. Do not use the excuse that it is transmutation due to it being in the title for it is irrelevant until said otherwise by the author.

      Third,

      It may be possible that Nen can still stimulate other senses of Non Nen Users. They may give special taste properties to their aura that can simulate taste. And for argument's sake, Emission changes the color of the water, it makes no sense. What makes a little sense but still does not connect is Enhancement, which increases the volume even though its supposed to enhance and duplicating things would be conjuration.



      There is no evidence to Transmutation changing the physical properties of an object or being percieved with normal sight as I said above, all your points are meaningless.

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